Follow League of Legends Friends on Anook

League of Legends Friends is a public nook on Anook. Sign up to join this nook or create your own public community or private hideout for your blog, forum, guild or anything else you like.

Graves shared his post
Graves

So it's been a while since I've posted a debate topic on theory crafting in League of Legends, but there's a new(ish) item and I've been playing around with the idea of it for a little while now.

 

Black Cleaver vs Last Whisper on Ranged Carries.

 

Here's a quick reference/tl;dr of the pros and cons of BC over LW:

Pros: +400 Health, +20% CDR, Rage Passive, Team Wide Armor Pen

Cons: -5% Armor Pen, +700g, Armor Pen needs to be built up.

 

Champions who like Black Cleaver: Tristana, Miss Fortune, Kog Maw, Corki(Maybe, I'm not very good with Corki), Graves*

Champions who hate Black Cleaver: Lucian, Ezreal, Draven, Graves*

 

When they first announced the new BC I thought "meh another bruiser item" until I actually looked at the stat comparison between BC and LW. Both have the same AD, BC has less Armor Pen that has to be built up, but is teamwide, BC costs more but also comes with 400 health.

 

So first off we'll look at The Bad:

Armor Pen has to be built up: This is an issue for some champions, Graves and Lucian lose a lot of upfront burst, Ezreal Q, Varus Q won't be as useful for poke and Draven's axes want to be killing people ASAP. These champions would much prefer having Last Whisper and I wouldn't advise Black Cleaver on them. There's still something to be said for Graves later though.

The other bad part to this is target switching, you switch targets you have to start all over again. For short ranged or immobile carries like Sivir or Ashe, this can be a problem if there's more than one tank diving you. Which is more than likely the case.

 

+700g: This is an issue, it delays your other items by quite a while and you don't get it as soon as possible. For champions like Graves and Varus, not having the early armor pen can stunt them greatly. I feel that the health however can offset not having a defensive until later which is great.

 

-5% Armor Pen: This isn't and is an issue. While you have less armor pen for yourself, there's more armor pen for your team as a whole. It's very situational whether this is good or bad.

 

With that all out of the way it all looks like doom and gloom. But here's The Good:

Rage passive: Probably the worst Pro. While it's nice to have more movement speed, Ranged champions only get 10 MS on hit, or 30 on Kill/Assist within 6s. It's nice for movement speed reliant champions like Ashe and Sivir, but not by much.

 

+400 Health: I've already touched on this earlier as it allows you to delay your defensive item slightly, but not only that, once you get that defensive item you're tankier than most other carries. Trinity Force users only get 250 health. It's not much, but with lifesteal and some resists you'll find yourself surviving situations where you would have died in seconds with a LW.

 

Team Wide Pen: See -5% Armor Pen. MF + heavy AD comp (If only MF was any good...)

 

+20% CDR: This is the most important part. And where the bulk of that 700 extra gold lies for the champions that use it. Remember when I said I'd be back for *Graves. While his buckshot will be doing less damage up front on the engage. He'll be able to get more buckshots per fight AND be able to dash more often. So while it limits Graves' burst, it can greatly increase his overall DPS if used efficiently. Kog Maw and Corki, unlike Ezreal, don't have CDR in their build but both are happy to take more if it's handed to them.

And lastly, Tristana. My love. With so much flat CDR built in to her kit, she loves BC. She's already very single target focused and she's strongest when her Q and E are available. If her E explodes on to the enemy team that's a nice 5% shred on everybody for 5s too.

 

So I know this was quite a wall of text but if you took the time to read it I hope it helps and I'd love to hear your opinions on the topic.

PhoenixFlameDX
  • May 6, 2015, 8:41:53 PM
PhoenixFlameDX

you forgot jinx...her AoE rockets would apply a stack to everybody(i think you forgot her). However i don't feel an ADC should be building a black cleaver unless it's the likes of an urgot(it's almost always been a staple on him). Unless you are really pressed for some armor pen on your team because nobody has any...i can't see it being more useful to an ADC over LW.

Let the bruisers shred armor off the tanks if you have one. If you don't then well...you'll want a LW if there are no other AD's on your team. Silver thoughts on the new BC meta

kokichat
  • May 6, 2015, 9:49:47 PM
kokichat

Didn't mention her since she has poke with W and because of her ult. And ye, I also think it shouldn't really be build on adc's or very rarely.

Mord6V4
  • Dec 5, 2016, 8:02:35 AM
Mord6V4
Subject Author Replies Last Update
ReXeno 6
Jun 26, 2018, 9:36:11 AM
by Deleted
Baikan 4
Jun 26, 2018, 9:24:35 AM
by Deleted
Baikan 3
Jun 26, 2018, 9:16:26 AM
by Deleted
MasterZero 100
Oct 21, 2015, 5:43:57 PM
by Theory
SlyMarksman 113
Sep 22, 2015, 5:19:43 AM
evolhere shared his post
evolhere
too many exams by 5IVE Pocky [League of Legends Edit]
www.youtube.com
♔Help us reach to 10.000 subscribers http://goo.gl/4UsMHA Pocky with another short but sweet league of legends …
evolhere shared his post
evolhere
intricate by 5IVE Kevin [League of Legends Edit]
www.youtube.com
♔Help us reach to 10.000 subscribers http://goo.gl/4UsMHA Although this edit is one of kevins oldest, it still …
evolhere shared his post
evolhere
She by 5IVE Danero [League of Legends Edit]
www.youtube.com
♔Help us reach to 10.000 subscribers http://goo.gl/4UsMHA Feels, feels all over the place. Enjoy this …
evolhere shared his post
evolhere

beautiful

Samiah by 5IVE Pocky [League of Legends Edit]
www.youtube.com
♔Help us reach to 10.000 subscribers http://goo.gl/4UsMHA We love Pocky! Hope you enjoy this short but sweet …
MajorGaren shared his post
MajorGaren

Blade and soul! End game raids with Clan!

MajorGaren - Twitch
www.twitch.tv
3v3 SIN SIN! (finally cam sorted!)
MajorGaren shared his post
MajorGaren

Live streaming morning exercise, and blade & soul! come join me!

MajorGaren - Twitch
www.twitch.tv
3v3 SIN SIN! (finally cam sorted!)
MajorGaren shared his post
MajorGaren

Arams/normals with viewers, come join us!

MajorGaren - Twitch
www.twitch.tv
3v3 SIN SIN! (finally cam sorted!)
FasePlays shared their video
evolhere shared his post
evolhere
incomplete by 5IVE Kevin [League of Legends Edit]
www.youtube.com
♔Help us reach to 10.000 subscribers http://goo.gl/4UsMHA We recruited "5ive Kevin" and he is here to stay, we …