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Showing all 2 posts tagged "guild-wars-2".
WoW Lost Subs. Horizontal vs Vertical progression games. Some Ideas


So first of all lets talk about different types of games particularly close to MOBA / MMOs and we will draw some technical comparison. This is going to be a long post (I think...) so grab a tea, coffee, or if you want to think I am a genius and make this "otherworldly" post and if its legal for you - smoke some pot??? Just kidding but lets get started!

Vertical progression games:
World of Warcraft is a prime example on this one. What is a vertical progression game? Its when the producers provide content for the gamers to consume. Imagine a ladder and you are climbing it once you reach the top there is nothing to climb until you are provided with more steps to climb at the end of the ladder.

Think off World of Warcraft - each new patch and each new expansion we have new cool ways of killing a bunch of monsters or players with different gear and skills - this is vertical progression. Once you done it, there is nothing to do; the game becomes somewhat bland and boring until the developers give you more content to consume. That's why world of warcraft is coming with more and more different patches, raids, and gear every patch so we.... well can consume.

The benefits of this types of games - gives you a feel of individuality, it also tracks your progress via ratings, achievements, mounts and so on and so forth.

Negative side of vertical progression games - easy its once you consume the content the game becomes boring. In addition, the game also feels grindy and its more of the heavy time investment games out there.

This is the main reason why WoW lost 1.3 million subs last quarter - people raided, consumed the content, got used to new PvP done it all and got bored. Everyone waiting on a new patch, new nerfs, new buffs, refreshing gameplay, new monsters to smite wif your mighty SWOAAAARDDDDD, and FIREEEE BALLLLS of steel or some shit.

My Biggest beef, pork and chicken with those types of games is that they feel very grindy and more focused on character development rather than having fun. In addition, these types of games also require you to have online friends to play with and while it looks good on a paper we all know that our REAL LIFE, girlfriends, boyfriends, your mom, gyms, work - will take a huge toll on our gaming and we can find our hours of gaming either diminish or we might have to change hours that we play, leaving us unable to play with current friends and forced to find others. The biggest negative side of this is relying on other people to have fun.

Horizontal Progression Games:

These are very tricky games, and while they do offer some grinding, the main focus of these games is gameplay. They are usually focused around players casually logging in and having fun with out feeling of being left behind due to not having up to date gear and other crap. Good example of vertical progression MMO games is Guild Wars 2:

Gear is free, no leveling when it comes to PvP. PvE gear has a cap and PvE evolves around killing monsters for achievements and fun rather than a shiny new purple. THE PURPLE my friends they are amazing like a brand new car totally worth our time!!!! (sarcasm detected!) WoW challenge dungeons - is a horizontal progression component. Some might argue that arenas or RBGays is the same thing - but I tend to disagree as you need your gear maxed before you can get into good groups thus creating invisible entry barrier and making it very hard for undergeared players to get their ratings.

MOBA why did I mention them? Well they are the prime example of horizontal progression games where people log in to have fun rather than grind. One of the most successful MOBA games is League of Legends (yes some might argue DOTA 2 is best, Smite, Heroes of Newerth, My MOM raids my basement or other mobas). I do not want to argue which MOBA is the best, I just want to go off the MOBA that I have the most fun in - League of LAGANDs and disconnects which is bad, especially when your team relys on that specific lagger that curses you in french and calls you dumb american (true story).

MOBA types of games are known! For their horizontal progression. League of Legends has the most stream viewers, one of the biggest following / community. This game is roughly what 3-4 years old? (no idea honestly its my ball park estimation.) It is certainly "younger" than world of warcraft. It has a bigger following, way bigger and yet there are only roughly 4 maps to play on. Regular classic 5v5, 3v3, dominion, AREM.

So when it comes to amount of content that was developed - World of Warcraft will smoke the crap out of League of Legends. Then why doesn't WoW have as big of a following if not bigger? The simple answer - While LoL does not seem to have as much content as WoW - their content is current! There is no such thing as outdated "useless content" as for example WoW has (BC raiding for XMOGs? Get a life you nuuuurrrddd!) While WoW has more game content most of it is outdated and most of the time irrelevant compared to the current season / raiding. At the same time LoL has same 4 maps that have been played and they are all the time relevent regardless of a patch / season.

Once you got your level, your runes or some shit LoL focuses on having fun, on just logging, getting that que and focus on playing the game rather than "pimping" out your character. Yes WoW has battlegrounds but those are more of a festival of who having the most gear wins type of scenarios. Undergeared random battlegrounds suck ass while in LoL runes do matter but not to the point of blue geared WoW character vs full purple character.

That's horizontal progression games - they focus on gameplay rather than character progression with different PURPLES!!!

The question arises then - why GW2 kinda well you know failed... It had one of the most amazing starts possible when it comes to MMOs. And their philosophy is probably one of the better ones compared to other MMOs. Free gear, free 80 if you want to PvP. Focus on gameplay rather than grind - all this sounds amazing. The problem with GW2 was probably very simple - not enough of a time investment / balancing.

While League of Legends has it flaws when it comes to balance - it is certainly built around rock paper scissors where one champion counters another one. Early vs late game champions, over 100 different ones. And believe me I thought some of the champions are just a complete and uter trash when it comes to high end PvP gameplay and I was suprised by some of the top LoL streamers playing those champions and making them work.

Guild Wars 2 on the other hand felt like Rock, Paper, Scissors, Darth Vader, Atomic Bomb and Ultralisk. While it does have professions and they do have options there are just quite frankly not viable professions, not viable options and lots and lots of cookie cutter builds. I played for 2 weeks GW2 recently 3-8 hours a day and qued against some high ranked premades (30-60 ranked) and my experience was miserable to say the least. I just think there was really no good amount of time investment in the game balancing by itself. While league has 4 maps there are lots of things you can do - support, jungler, ADC, bruiser, AP carry and something in between 2. In GW2 there is only 1 mechanic - node capping, and while it does have some sort of a layer - bunker build, 1 shot 2 shot mechanic, condition builds, roamer. I just do not think it was enough to make the same Battle Grounds enjoyable over and over as LoL. Also Moba games usually take longer time than just 1 warfront.

In my opinion GW 2 Developers need to come out of their mom's basement, roll up their sleeves and be open about their vision of the game, balance, class roles. Develop more interesting profession / weapon choices. In LoL deveopers say this champion is a support, this one ADC, this one is Jungler, this one is bruiser. You know your class role and what it can fulfill while GW2 devs are silent. It is frustrating to play warrior sword and shield while you see other professions surpass you at evertying you do. You do not have a nitch on some professions, and some are straight more effient that you are. What is the point of offering variety of builds if there is a limit to what you can do profession wise (yes taking about warriors - 100blades or go home, Necro - conditionmancer or go home type of scenarios at high ranked play (usually!)). Give the life to builds make Necro axe spec have a specific role, or sword and board warrior, or a melee ranger have the roles that they can fulfill.

I would honestly make a shrine to GW2 if they can come up with more interesting gameplay / professions items in the future. 8 professions cannot simply satisfy our nerd craving theory crafting hunger. Come on with some weapons that transform your professions if creating a new profession feels like a huge time investement. Example: corrupted sword - will transform a Warrior into a Death Knight, Arcane Shield will transform elementalist into arcane melee warrior, dual dagger set will transform thief into assassin. and so forth.

Basically I think the plateform of gaming (no grind easy access) in GW2 is far superior of WoW model that has endless grind attached to it, but where GW2 failed is communication with their fans, balancing issues, and simply not enough content.

Ironically WoW had one of the most fun horizontally progression Battle ground maps - Alterac Valley where people would fight all the time, get the resources, summon avatars, assault bases and have some really long 40 minutes epic battles. People enjoyed it! But for some odd who knows whatever reason Blizzard let it die out with future expansions.

So what is the point of all this that I am typing -

In a hopes that WoW at some point also recognizes that they should tone down vertical progression in their game, its boring! Am I the only one annoyed by a constant gear grind even in PvP? Point capping?

WoW needs some structure again where people log in to have fun rather than progress their character. I have some ideas that I will post in the future blogs and twitt to their developers. Its funny but I did get a few responses from WoW Devs especially when I made a survey compared to GW2 where all I heard are crickets.

WoW needs to amp up their horizontal progression they need to make the game be fun instead of huge grind fest. And if people will seen entertainment in WoW over grind and WoW can provide it with horizontal progression then what we will see is a lot less people unsubbing in between patches and subscriber fluctuations.

Thank you for reading my long ass blog post about vertical vs horizontal progression games. And I will post some ideas in the future. Later!

Why I stopped having fun in GW 2... (PvP perspective)

I am working on a review video for it and right now I decided to also add another show to my youtube channel - PvP game reviews. Playing multiple games for over 12 years PvP exclusive content being in top 1%-3% of multiple games (from MOBA, Strategy games and MMOS) I think I can provide a decent reviews, entertainment and suggestions and balance fixes.

DISCLAIMER: I am not here to offend anybody here, and I understand that there are tons of fanboys that will higher an assassin to take me out... Well lets not go that far, but ALL I ASK from fanboys here is that to give my post a benefit of the doubt and try to understand that this is MY and most of my subscriber's opinions and most of us quit playing the game therefore we are giving reasons why we did.

Just getting started!
Please do not wave a fanboy exclusive patented "This Game just came out" flag right in front of my face because it won't simply work.

With new added battle grounds, warzones, warfronts whatever they called I cannot simply believe that developers did not have time to design a 4 walled structure for people to PvP. To be frank Arena "Room Design" is a lot simplier than battle ground design, the problem lies in not developers having not time to design Arena Room its because the meta system of the game is different.

99.999999% of the PvPers who were "hardcore" in GW1 and some new people who came into GW2 were expecting Arenas when it came for structured PvP, and instead we got shoved with battle grounds and node capping right into our throats and it tastes monotone!

The problem with Arenas not being introcuded right now are due some of the core class structural errors on top of the system "no holy trinity" system that back fired. Arenas are all about crowd control or focus fire, they are also about healing and healing prevention.

Not having a healer right now in GW2 will make Arena matches too fast and it will be basically best defensives cookie cutter builds vs best defensives cookie cutter builds. THAT IS THE MAIN PROBLEM. Imagine 3-5 people focus firing Necromancer (profession with decent tankiness but absolutely worst possible escapes) Necros will get plastered. Imagine 3-5 people focus firing Mesmer with 3-4 different vanish / stealths?!

Yeah - that is a problem of not having a healer in arena. Classes with most escapes and burst will prevail in the arena environment where classes even with amazing sustain damage, and condition control will be left behind.


I would strongly suggest Arena Net (GW2 Devs) to introduce the Arena mechanics and if they still feel strongly against healers then add NPC that heals people or introduce passive 6,000 healing per second (arbitrary number) in 5v5 match done to the entire team and the way that 6,000 will heal will be based on the lowest HP class getting most healing. (Example you have 4 people at 80% HP and 1 person at 20% then 4 people will receive 750 healing per second to top them off and 1 person at 20% will receive 3,000 healing per second (FYI 3,000 is decent but vs 5 people you will still die and do not forget about posion))

This way I feel like we can have fun in arenas, they will take decent amount of time, classes will be decently balanced due to their over all utility they bring rather than who has the best escapes / defensives / burst.

The problem here is yet again not developers being lazy to introduce duels, no. The problem here lies in class balancing and the lack off (will talk later in this blog.) Imagine mesmer with 3-4 stealths and phantasms dealing up to 5k damage with illusionary unload? Or thief with Cloak and Dagger + Back Stab the one who can crit up to 40% of your health bar and vanish up to 6 times in 1 match?!

Yeah good luck balancing here... The problem with introducing dueling in GW2 will also be admitting that the balance in the game is an absolute joke outside of objective playing for battle grounds / warzones.

The sad thing is that people are still dueling - they join the specific game / server with no people in it and start dueling. Unfortunately they do however have to deal with random people joining and playing warzones like they are supposed to (killing everything and capping nodes). Which makes it a pretty irritating experience for random people joining somebody's dueling game and people in a dueling game having interruptions.


You can't stop or force people to change their mind about dueling. If they want to they will find a way how. What you created is a poor joke of a dueling experience with tons of frustrations! If developers want to go that route of not introducing dueling in the game - fine, but they are missing out on a big aspect of PvP that MMOs have to offer. Rework class balance reintroduce it - yup thats all I got when it comes to suggestions about dueling.


For people that a new to MMOs, or PC gaming then battle grounds in GW 2 will look fun. For seasoned PvP veterans this is a joke... and a bad one...

When I quit this game the things that made people rage is just 1 simple mechanic - node capping (capping the objective points) with a slight variations with one having water combat (YUCK!). 2 more battle grounds came out - and what do we have - MORE node capping and a slight stench of water combat.

ENOUGH! It is boring. Essentially all we have is 3 node capping over and over and over and over and over again. The worst part of it is that you get to chance to play your favorite one once in a rotation of 5 and if you want to get into another one you have to leave your own warzone / battle ground and join a new one.

PLEASE for the love of twitch, youtube, google and anything else that is holy in PvP come up with some other designs for battle grounds. 5 maps of the absolutely the same game mechanic is over done. (FYI the most fune is prolly frost of niftell or w.e its called beause at least there is much easier to find and engage in team fights.)


This is going to be a GHOOD ONE.

First of all lets talk about something that does not make any sense:

You can not see damage, healing and other raw numbers that is actually HUGE when it comes to player growth. How do I know that I am doing something right?! Engaging the right fights or have decent positioning if I cannot see my progression with damage?! How do I know my rotation is right if I du not see damage?!

Why there are no damage score board?! Because Dev's afraid that people will look at score boards and finally realize that there is a HUGE imbalance in a game?!

Reward system promotes a lot of objectives and this is where the developer wants us to focus sure. But its BORING! Can we have some awesome rewards for killing people as well?!

I seriously feel like a 3 year old child and have developers shoving me porridge filled with their perception of the class balance that also stinks badly (not everyone likes porridge filled with capturing nodes balance.) I feel like this game is getting balanced around NODES captures and to me this is by far the worst possible way of balancing the game. People give crap to Blizzard for balancing around 3v3 in arena. Imagine balancing around objectives?! LUDICROUS!

Not to class balnce itself:

I completely disagree with the class balance in the game. I get the feeling that Devs balance the game around maps and node capping and if you look at it like that it is in fact looks decent. But the meta class balance, the balance of specs, traits, skills the 1v1 and team fight balance it is pretty horrible.

**Lets get started:*

Random Ques are getting ruined by 2 professions
Random battle grounds (place where you can start learning PvP is filled with Thiefs and Mesmers. Why? Because they are kings of 1 v 1 combat with multiple escapes amazing burst or pet damage. I would rather face pre nerfed retaliation guardian than face a mesmer with 4 different vanishes.

Somehow developers forgot 1 tinsy tinesey thing - having multiple stealth mechanics is not fun for the other party facing the thief or mesmer. As a thief I literally can do 3 cloak and dagger / back stabs with 18k damage total before the enemy will have a chance to react or counter me. (lets not forget other utilities escapes as well)

Random Ques get filled by 80% thiefs sometime and it is AGGRAVATING (notice caps here, yes they are here for a reason) to watch 3 thiefs simultaneously heart seeker your ass. The PvP meta system of the game is an absolute joke.

The fact that thiefs can be very effective with absolutely not much of a time investment or thought completely ruins random battle grounds experience.

Now the biggest rebuttle i heard from people - well in the tournaments its way more balanced. The problem I have is - new players who do not want to get into trounaments and would like to practice their profession will have to deal with countless thiefs and mesmers and by the time they think they are ready for tournaments they would want to throw this game out of the window.

And this leads me into another thing - Professions balance:


It sticks, its crap, its aggrivating....

Individual skills - I have yet to find more of an imbalanced MMO when it comes to individual skills. "Mesmer's null void - clears booms from enemies, conditions from allies lasts 7 seconds) 45 seconds CD. Can somebody in a right mind tell me why this skill is not a 3 minutes cooldown and is not on elite spot?!
Why do phantasms that unload 4-5k damage are on 16 seconds CD?
Lets take heart seeker - its a damage, gap closer and execute 3 mechanics rolled into 1 with extremely low initiative cost and no cooldown.
Literally some classes have abilities that makes you wonder how is this still in a game after 5 months of the release?!

Not in any MMO ever I seen so many discrepancies when it comes to strength of skills. Some classes literally have 2-4 different mechanics pooled into 1 skill. Arena Net this is a bad joke...


Lets start with thiefs - easy to play, tons of damage, tons of escapes. Class is squishy? yes it is absolutely! Class has a lot of survivabilities - YES. How is this possible - lots of escape mechanics that makes the game not fun for other party.

Thiefs do too much damage, easy to play with 1-2 button spamming - your justification they are "squishy" fine increase their armor/ hp and nerf their damage + escapes.

Mesmers - anybody else seeing that this is absolutely wrong for a mage class to have one of the best heals in a game on top of illusions?! Anybody else things that the class with multiple abilities to spam illusions should not have 3-5 options for stealth?! Just me?!

The problem here is 1 very simple my friends - NO healers. any damage counts and for mesmer's illusions on 16/24 sec CD this is a freaking heaven. First time I played mesmer I was able to kill 2 people in a 1v3 set up by just running around. I seriously scored in top 3 places for points by just sititng in a middle and let my pets do all the work for me. Pets do too much damage in this game. Add some utilities to them and nerf their damage to where it is decent but not overpowered. NO WAY IN HELL should be a 1v1 fight where top damage done to you was from pet's abilities.


it is seriously "down" state. Boring, annoying, and absolutely unbalanced part of the game to an absolute monstrous levels of nerd raging. Example: Mesmer dies - his pets remain, he can port, he can put dieing illusions while his pets are doing damage (15-25% of your HP every 5 seconds!). Necromancer has umm 1 second fear... poison... life drain for 200?! Please tell me that you do not thing that the down state mechanics is an absolute joke.

REWORK your classes/ skills. Make it not possible to stack stealth skills, make it not possible to stack a lot of passive damage via pets (mesmers, rangers to some extend MM necros) Give pets more utilities!
Rework individual skills. Skills like Null Void do not belong in this game as it is a hardcounter to any condition class in a game fighting vs mesmer's team. Make classes more balance around the combat not around who can get caps better.

PvP in Guild Wars 2 is disappointing due to unbalanced skills, class stacking, stealth stacking 1 boring ass mechanic and thats it!

It is by far the worst experience I had behind lineage 2. I would seriously play 100$ if they rework guild wars 1 put a bit more effort into it and improve graphics than play guild wars 2.
This is one of those sad things where the expansion / build up that not only did not deliver what it promised but also disappointed hardcore fans.**

My personal review rating is 4/10 with 4 scored mostly around amazing PvP area and PvP gear designs, and the way PvP is made with no grinding